Krishna, our ways are different, but you are directly contradicting the scriptures. I do not have knowledge of Devi Rahasyam, but I would like to add the following quote from Ram Kumar Rai's translation of Kularnava Tantra, available on Archive: "Liberation is not to be obtained either by chanting of the Vedas or study of the Sastras. O Viravandite! Jina or Real knowledge alone can give Liberation, nothing else. Neither Aéramas ( four stages of life ) nor philosophies or Sciences can provide the means for liberation; only the Jifana of all the Sastras can give it. And this Jiiana can be received through the words of a Guru. All other ways are deceptive, oppressive; the knowledge of Truth alone is life-giving. " The guru's supremacy is universal to all written Tantras. We do not have the exact wording of Devi Rahasyam, but going by the way you remember it, I believe you misinterpret it deeply. "scripture itself act like a guru to the sincere sadhaka". The emphasis here is on *act like* - not substitution - and *sincere*. It has been spoken about on manblunder before about how some procedures and/or mantras are self-activated. This is what sincerity refers to, the situation where doors open themselves for the honest seeker who dedicates himself fully and abandons attachments for complete surrender to the guru principle. Such a path is opposite to sattvic sadhana but I have witnessed it offer unbelievable miracles to those willing to sacrifice everything and suffer an explosive rebirth. It is exactly for this destructive potential that you should not embark on the tantric journey without the guidance of a guru. To mirror your appeal to world religion, traditionally, it is the shaman who ventures to terrifying places to return with knowledge for his followers, precisely because the teacher has been gifted the constitution for radical self-activated transformation and he wants to impart this gift to as many people as possible; the guru, then, is capable of taking on the karma of disciples so they reap some of the benefit but for only a fraction of the cost. I agree that it is extraordinarily rare to meet a true guru like this, and it is true that one can start doing certain mahavidya procedures on their own, but then the issue that appears is they fall victim to hubris and either stagnate in progression or lose their minds completely or worse. This is the explanation for what might be perceived as elitism or dogmatism to guru supremacy. We must never forget that as seekers we are constantly in touch with forces of inconceivable power which should always be revered and approached with awe. Nama japa, stotrams, Shri Vidya sutras, pranayama, ayurveda, meditation, jyotish, hatha yoga - these are all surprisingly effective and appropriate avenues for the uninitiated to massively improve their lives. For this, one may consult the writings on this website in conjunction with Sadhguru's teachings. Just a year or two of sincere "beginner" sadhana is sufficient to uproot life completely without the risk inherent to all tantric practice. I must add, Krishna, that I am not against you at all and I have had benefit as a result of your writings and engaging in discussion with you. What I write here is mostly for the community, because the danger of unguided tantra and diluted teachings cannot be understated, not out of fearmongering or gatekeeping, but out of genuine desire for humanity's benefit.

In the first chapter itself it's written. In the same publication as Krishna Ji replied. The chapter which tells about diksha.

It's probably been a decade since I saw it. It is there in the first volume of Devi Rahasyam published by Chaukhamba authored by Dr. Kapil Dev Narayan. If I do come across it again, I will certainly update you. Scriptural references are often sought, because we give them the highest importance and so do our gurus. The commonality in the world religions is also their books held as the word of God and being above all. Just like Jayanth commented earlier, the chances of finding a true guru are the same as hitting a lottery. We may find a namesake guru, but our true guides will be the scriptures and a thorough study and analysis of the same is more important than the guru guidance. By all means honor the guru and guru parampara, but the worship is directed towards the guru principle that exists in many forms and is truly the Divine Mother Herself, when the individual forms and names fade away. This is the principle of the transition from the ordinary Vardhanī kalaśa to the Sāmānyārghya and then to the most important Viśeṣārghya to experience the Self.

Dear Tīvra ji, I'm requesting you to please throw some light on Cintāmaṇi Bālā. What's Her nature? What is Her mantra? What's the upāsana paddati? Who is qualified for Her sādhanā. Her name itself has captured my attention.

I bow down to The Guru tattva that guided, shapes up a normal human, turning him into a sadhak. I bow down to The Universal Guru Tattva, who takes the sadhak ahead in thr Sadhna path. To the best of my understanding, every person carries their Spiritual account from past lives.. Guru too enters his life to continue the Spirtual journey. Most of us start with monetary gains, which may lead to the path of Self Realization. In the process, Divine forms are worshipped, their grace is achieved, the most beautiful connection is established. The soul gets hungry to achieve more & more grace. The Divine sends help in the form of higher knowledge in various forms eg. hearing, reading, receiving instruction in dream etc. By this time sadhak has learned to be a witness too. He has understood the aim of his life. Hence the journey continues. In recent post about stages of Bhakti, Tivraji has explained 4 stages very well. Understanding 17 stages of Sri Vidya along with Maharshi Arvind' & Swami Ramalinga's path, is another great sadhna to reach higher levels. Why shouldn't a seeker get inspired from them & follow it with proper understanding? Such knowledge comes from the Universal Guru Tattva. There is nothing wrong in following it because at each level one is connecting, speaking to the Divine form of those levels. Attainment is also bringing Divine in our life. If you live with the Divine, they take over your life. Sadhna is all about developing connection with the Divine. Live with their Energies & never stop your progress. At next level Divine may reveal their higher forms, deeper connection. It's a beautiful path. Physical Guru is definitely needed. Keeping our senses open may lead to The Universe teaching us something exceptional. For me All these are my Gurus. Whatever is expressed here is from my personal experiences.

Not sure why you thought my sadhana could be merely an intellectual exercise similar to meditation. Well, it’s not and therefore the conclusions you derived are by default wrong. The reason I mentioned calmness is due to the fact of how angry Kuru’s comments are. Definitely not constructive criticism. Anyone can be criticized on this site within the boundaries of mutual respect. Insults, anger, and fear mongering make one wonder whether there is ill intention or not. You seem to know him in person, which is great. Why don’t you convince him to share with us what he knows within the permits of his lineage? So, we can all learn from him. Do you think you could do that for us? Last but not least, it’s very presumptuous to think that people who benefit from the site don’t have the assistance of a Guru. I am sure some don’t, and some do. For good reasons not everyone feels comfortable sharing that kind of info on the Net.

If the fruits of your sadhana are merely intellectual - correct me if otherwise - then it is ineffective. Spiritual efforts should lead to attainment. If you say that your sadhana has led you away from hatred, it is comparable in results to meditating for years upon, say, mundane philosophy, and coming to the conclusion that violence is a strain upon all those involved. I would advise you to refrain from speaking ill of Kuru - or any of the good-intentioned participants in this discussion - for you do not know the karmas he cradles for others, the many people he has burnt himself for, or the degree of his grace. His efforts are not to create confusion, but in fact to dissolve it. Tantric knowledge is organized around the key principle of guru-shishya. Gurus reveal knowledge to their disciples in accordance with the will of higher deities and only knowledge which has been proven effective within the parampara. If the practices of the lineage mix and become diluted without being filtered by a direct vessel of guru tattva, this will be the sin of all involved and it can cause much devastation. This is what Kuru speaks about: preserving the rahasya and the very effective methods of Raviji's noble lineage, and trying to prevent the knowledge revealed through Raviji from being stained by others. I must say that there are more things that unite us than divide us, and I sincerely doubt it is anyone's goal to selfishly hoard knowledge. To this effect, we must all exercise our best discernment and hold each other well on the path for the benefit of all.

@Krishna: I have been following the discussions here seriously, and this has reference to your latest comment. I am unable to trace the source/reference of your statement therein "Scriptures such as Devi Rahasyam state that the scripture itself can act like a guru to the sincere sādhaka." Where exactly in the Devi Rahasyam is this statement, or its equivalent, given? I would much appreciate your clarification and guidance on this point.

I don't think it's the mantra's experience. I think you are in confusion of some coincidences. Mantra doesn't work like that. If a mantra is creating fear in you,that means you are doing it wrong. Bhava is the most important thing before doing any kind of worship or mantra. You need to have depth and transformation and inner power,you have to be grounded enough too,after that you go for mantra or stotras. Meditation alone cannot give you required results. First transform your inner self after that go for mantra siddhi.

Mantras does not work like every one is asking in comments. One need to have bhava for shakti, without bhava, nothing is possible,after that one has to transform himself inner way,then comes grounding oneself so that it doesn't create confusions and fear. Mantra doesn't harm,it's our own mind that harms more than the mantra. So grounding is too important. I know because I have lived in sadhana half of my life i experienced it.