Dear Chakravarti, thank you for your response! Since we are discussing initiation, I found another interesting passage by one Om Swami in his book, The Ancient Science of Mantras. I thought this might be of interest to you, particularly regarding what he says about initiation and the freedom of certain mantras. Here is an excerpt from his book regarding initiation: "When mantras were created by Shiva, there were no exceptions. Any adept practicing a mantra had to be initiated in that mantra as well as check it for flaws and compatibility. The science of mantras evolved over time but legend has it that there was one specific incident that impacted the most. That one incident set many mantras free to be chanted and invoked by anyone. A devout Brahmin was chanting a verse from the Rigveda. This verse became the famous Mrityunjaya Mantra, that is a mantra that can conquer even death (mrityu). In his devotional sentiment, with all the reverence and fervor he could muster, he was chanting the following mantra: oṃ tryambakaṃ yajāmahe sugandhiṃ puṣṭivardhanam urvārukamiva bandhanān mṛtyormukṣīya māmṛtāt (The Rigveda, 7.59.12) I worship that fragrant Shiva of three eyes, the one who nourishes all living entities. May he help us severe our bondage with samsara by making us realize that we are never separated from our immortal nature. The last word māmṛtāt comprises two words maa + amritat. Maa means my or me and amritat means imperishable, immortal and eternal. The opposite of amritat is mritat which means mortal, perishable and temporary. The Brahmin, though qualified, was wrongly chanting the last word as mamritat which means my mortal nature. This small mistake was changing the entire meaning of the mantra making it the opposite of what he actually meant. One such evening when he was chanting, Shiva was roaming the universe with his divine consort Parvati, the Goddess. They came closer to earth and passed over the Brahmin. Shiva chuckled hearing him chant the mantra. “O Devi,” he said, “this Brahmin is ignorantly asking for bondage and not liberation by incorrectly chanting the mantra. If he goes on like this, he’ll never attain moksha.” “The world will certainly blame you for that, my Lord,” Devi said. “You are the creator of all the mantras. He’s chanting out of extreme devotion and reverence. He doesn’t even know that you will grant him the opposite of what he seeks. No average person can understand the intricacies of the language that evolved from your damaru. You alone are the perfect grammarian.” Shiva stopped mid-air and pondered over the matter for a few seconds. “I hear you, Devi,” he said somberly, “but I can’t interfere in the natural energy radiated by the mantras. A sun in any solar system will always exude heat, it can’t emit coldness. It must follow the natural dharma. So too will mantras only emanate their energy based on how they are chanted.” “There must be some solution, Nath,” Devi pleaded. “At least, there should be no ill-effects. Maybe the energy of the mantra could be neutralized. After all, no matter how much heat sun radiates, stones don’t catch fire nor does water. At least, a sincere devotee should be protected.” “That is why initiation is important, hence the need for all the precepts and checks,” Shiva reasoned. “Agreed, but no one should be deprived from participating in your sonic creation just because of initiation. Grant them pardon, Lord. Show them the way.” Shiva looked at Devi for a brief moment and then gazed in the far distant space as if scanning all the universes in the whole of creation, as if taking stock of all the mantras that floated in that creation, the mantras his damaru had created. “From this day on, all Vedic mantras are exempt from phonetic and compatibility checks. Even if an uninitiate were to chant, no harm would befall on him.” Shiva went on to narrate a list of conditions that mantras fulfilling those conditions would be considered exceptions and those chanting or invoking such mantras will only benefit from the positives and not be affected by the negatives. “My own mantra of five letters, Om Namah Shivaya, will also be exempt as will be all mantras imparted by any female practitioner because you live in all females, Devi, and today with your intervention, mankind will benefit in a big way.” Realizing that Sanskrit required great phonetic precision, Shiva also created another class of mantras called the Sabar Mantras. They are self invoked (svyama-siddha) mantras that are used for a variety of worldly purposes. But most importantly, with that boon, Shiva set free millions of mantras. The conditions under which a mantra may be exempt are given at the end of this chapter. There are many mantras that are used for chanting, spiritual progress and other purposes and they don’t have the six limbs as stated earlier. Most of these mantras have become famous over the last few thousand years, some only in the last few hundred years. It is quite possible for a chant to be a mantra and still not conform to the framework of mantra science. As always there are exceptions to the rule. In mantra yoga as well, there are many mantras that can be taken up by anyone with or without initiation (though initiation is always recommended). Anyone can chant these mantras without worrying about whether or not the mantra is beneficial to them. It doesn’t mean they are any less effective, it simply means that over the last few thousand years, these mantras have been invoked and passed on by enough adepts for the welfare of others that they are beyond personal invocation. And, therefore, they no longer require the usual rigors of mantra yoga. There are some medicines for which you must have prescription and then there are some you can just procure over the counter. It’s not that offthe-shelf medicines are not effective; it’s just that they are unlikely to kill someone or cause damage. Those meds are freely available. Anyone can buy them without consulting a doctor or having a prescription in their hands. Think of mantras that are exempt from the standard requirements in mantra yoga to be like off-the-shelf medication — effective, harmless, but temporary. Most bhakti mantras such as Hare Krishna Hare Krishna Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, many self-invoked (svayam siddha) mantras, etc., don’t have the six limbs. It also depends a great deal on the guru. If the guru invoked a certain mantra and decides to pass it on to his or her disciples in a way that’s not traditional or scriptural, those mantras can still work provided you are initiated into such a mantra. For all other mantras, it’s of immense benefit to actually follow the process. Rudrayamalam and other scriptures are quite clear on the mantras that don’t need special assessments. Here are the mantras that don’t require any compatibility or other considerations in the Kali Yuga. 1. A mantra your guru has initiated you in 2. Any mantra of Krishna 3. A mantra that’s given to you in a dream 4. When a mantra is imparted by a female adept even not as 5. initiation 6. A mantra comprising only one seed syllable 7. A mantra comprising only three seed syllables 8. A mantra that contains more than twenty letters 9. All vedic mantras (There are a lot of non-vedic mantras) 10. A mantra of five letters 11. A mantra of eight letters For any mantra to be effective, particularly if it doesn’t fall in the above ten categories, it requires initiation, proper invocation and complete adherence to the tenets of mantra yoga."

Namste venerable tīvra ji how pratical it is to recieve desired boon from deity in this yuga. Can we still achive this and how to do it? Jai maa tripur sundari please accept this jaikara as my offering.

Thank you very much tīvra ji, this what i wanted to say but couldn't contemplate in words. Thank you for your profound insight and guidance.

Namaste Dearest Tivra. This is an eye-opener to all of us and may we continue to enrich ourselves with your contributions to the site. I for one among many here on this site, see the Guru tattva in you and are always in your embrace. This connection is permanent and was there before, is there now and will remain forever. Just like the rays of the morning sun emerging from beyond the horizon to dispel the darkness of the night, your words and profound insights remove all the ignorance and morbidity that has taken deep root within us due to our karmas, environment etc.

Dear Herodion, some of the questions are answered in various tantras and other mantra related books. I don't have the correct references handy, so will not answer them now. The idea of re-creating the old discussion forum is excellent. Let me see what I can do about it. We may still have the handle for it somewhere.

This is very beginner knowledge Tivra, and it is also beginner knowledge to know that in order to reach this guru tattva it requires one of two things. The entire dissolution of the self, which is nearly impossible to do alone for almost all aspirants, because it involves the surrender of all comforts and attachments. Or, one requires a guru to lead them there. These are universally agreed upon to be the only two practical methods of reaching this. Your one dimensional views and assumptions that others do not have this extended knowledge is only telling of your limited mentality and experience. You have too much book knowledge and internet knowledge, and no real life experience. I urge anyone who takes this path seriously to go to places where they may find genuine experienced and Accomplished aspirants and gurus who have undeniable traits who can shift one's reality. This will change your life in actuality. It seems the internet is becoming more and more flooded with fabrications and false knowledge, making it a less reliable place even for beginner sadhakas.

Raman, exactly where did you find the publication you are mentioning? I have gone over the publicly available renditions of srividyarnava and I'm unable to find the passage anywhere let alone any reference to it. The entire structure of the tantra is far different to how it's been conveyed and on the very same page there is no reference to what you are speaking of: https://snipboard.io/Qlinaq.jpg I would hate to think that anyone would go so far to fabricate a text but in the screenshot you provided it begins with |1| even though the text only makes sense as a continuation of something prior. I genuinely hope you would not go so far to fabricate a text, please provide what rendition or publication you used so that I may verify the text, because at the moment this looks extremely bad faith on your part.

Thanks a lot dear Vipul for taking the time to explain things in detail. Much appreciated. The information you've shared would be useful and encouraging to all sadhakas. Thanks again and God bless.

Some questions for all to foster practical discussion instead of reinforcing the old cyclical debate: 1) What method do you know of to discover your ishta devata? 2) What is the correspondence between the Mahavidyas and one's birth nakshatra? 3) Are the deities you approach tantric or orthodox? 4) What, if any, is the distinction between Vidya and knowledge? And specifically for Krishna: Would it be too much effort for you to re-create the old Manblunder Discussion Forum? Its current version is inactive, flooded by spam and on an outdated platform. It's apparent to me that discussion exists, and I think a forum is a platform better suited for interactions of this type than the comments of this blog.

Kuru Sandhyasa and Chakravarti. Do you truly know what the Principle called Guru is? Personally, I believe you still haven't understood what the Guru truly is. Let me state categorically what the Guru is: the Guru is an indescribable intelligence, inseparable from the Soul or Soul Spark of all beings, without exception. It is not only in human beings or supposedly enlightened beings. What I mean is that the Guru is beyond lineages, initiation, religions, and paths. The scriptures establish the need for an external Guru, but this is only for safety. An external Guru has never been and never will be mandatory, as this goes against the very nature of what the Guru is. The principle called Guru is even in a stone, and I say more: it is entirely there, not just in parts. If this principle called Guru so desires, a stone gains consciousness and performs the five great acts: Creation, Sustenance, Destruction/Purification, Concealment/Involution, Revelation/Evolution. True Kaulas place the Guru at the center, but not the Guru you are imagining and that you probably don't yet understand. Authentic Kaulas know this truth and they are absolutely right in saying that they are not Śaktas, Vaiṣṇavas, Śaivas, or others. The authentic Kaula says: I am not obligated to any lineage, any dogma, any school... my only obligation is to be sincere with the Guru. This true Kaula is not talking about the external Guru restricted to a single person... this Kaula is talking about the Guru who is equal and whole in every particle of Creation and who is compelled by sincere devotion, by the act of honoring this Guru in every part of Creation, not just in someone belonging to a lineage, school, or religion. Authentic Kaulas follow Kuṇḍalinī Yoga under the prism of Kādi Vidyā and the Pañcadaśī Mantra. They walk in the same direction, but expanding in all directions. The name "Kaula" comes from "Family", but the family here is all of Creation, Everything. The Guru's oneness does not allow him to be the exclusive possession of any path, school, scripture, or lineage. The Kaula will violate all scriptures that are necessary, if the principle called Guru so dictates. The Guru is beyond that, far beyond. Hinduism, for example, is only a garment that the Guru wears, but he has countless garments. You will only be able to truly worship the Guru's feet through the Oneness of Being. Śrī Vidyā, for example, is the knowledge of Śrī. What is Śrī? Śrī is the Guru. The letter "Ś" signifies Mahāmāyā operating through the Śuddha Tattva, a Tattva that makes you say AHAM = IDAM and IDAM = AHAM. This is called "Diversity that does not lose Unity." The Guru does not lose Unity, even if he becomes many. The letter "r" signifies Cit-Śakti or Force of Consciousness. This Force of Consciousness of the Guru is a Force that "Knows and Acts" simultaneously and in the same act. He knows because he contemplates himself and sees himself in all of creation. The Guru is alone: ​​Sat. The letter "ī" signifies Vyakta Kāmakalā or the Dynamic form of Kāmakalā, inseparable from Avyakta Kāmakalā, signified by the letter "e," the Static aspect of Kāmakalā. When, through the Force of Consciousness (Cit-Śakti), the Guru contemplates himself in all of Creation and says: "I am all of this, therefore I am alone: ​​Sat." He Knows and Acts in the same act. This Consciousness-Power of knowing that all of this "is me" reveals Ānanda. Ānanda in its highest state reveals that "playfulness" is a natural temperament of the Absolute. The Guru possesses this Absolute Svatantrya or Freedom, the power to even forget himself, as in the case of life on Earth, for example. But the Guru also has the Freedom to "play" without forgetting himself. The Guru is that Auspiciousness or "Śrī" which is Sat-Cit-Ānanda in all things. The Guru wants you to find him even in a stone, so that he can reveal his Auspiciousness and Grace. The Guru doesn't want to limit the embrace: he wants you to embrace him in everything, so that he can embrace you in everything. I hope you two will reflect on this.